Comments on: 401 Que?

By: Retirement Accounts: 7 Case Studies « How to Make 7 Million in 7 Years™

Retirement Accounts: 7 Case Studies « How to Make 7 Million in 7 Years™ — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:45:08 +0000

[...] Ryan – Is a highly paid rep. for medical equipment with some ideas of his own. He is exploring the options as to whether he should be investing INSIDE his 401k etc. or OUTSIDE, both for him and/or his wife. What advice could you give him? [...]

By: Diane

Diane — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:19:53 +0000

@ Ryan, just adding my two cents to your first thought – if it contradicts the rest, ignore it, but I’ve always thought it was better to pay myself than Uncle Sam. Just trying to figure out other ways to do that than socking away more in an IRA (like before it becomes a tax-reduction question) and I think that’s what Scott and Adrian were talking about…

By: Scott

Scott — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:52:02 +0000

Good for you Ryan! See ya at the top buddy

By: Ryan

Ryan — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 03:32:55 +0000

@ Scott – Very Napolean Hill/James Allen (http://www.asamanthinketh.net/) thinking of you. I have read Think and Grow Rich and ALL of James Allen’s stuff (which I prefer). It is really intriguing stuff and I have personally seen it be EXTREMELY effective in my life as well.
overall, great points made by you, Scott. I think moving forward, I will take the minimum amount that makes good tax sense and invest it in a Ron Popeil account (“set it…and forget it!) The rest of my cash and energy will be focused on my purpose/goal.

@ AJC – great summary of the question at hand (you have a knack for reigning us in). If I look at when I want to retire, a 401K will do me no good, period. And if I were a single guy with no responsibilities I would have no problem going for my goal guns a blazing, no holds barred. However, I have a wife and two kids to support and so, a safety net is required equipment on my journey. I will, however, keep it to a responsible minimum and as I stated earlier, will not be focused on it.

By: Scott

Scott — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 22:14:33 +0000

@ Lee – I definitely know this to be true in my own life. Sometimes I need that danger to keep me fighting for what I want, but indeed we also get exactly what we continue to think about

By: Adrian

Adrian — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 07:49:35 +0000

@ Ryan – The question that you are faced with is “where do I invest [choose amounts of choice: $34k + $6k + $15k, adjusted for taxes and penalties]?”.

This is a decision that you make by default every day, but should explicitly make at least once per year.

All you need to think about is How Much you need and By When you will need it and then you should be able to list the activities and/or investments that can get you there.

I use the terms “How Much” and “By When”, here, as they MAY correspond with your Number and Date, but they may not …

…. for example, your choice may be to hold a fund in reserve ‘just in case’ (your wife’s $34k might be ideal) … but, you still need to do the analysis; even for her the 401k may / may not be the best choice … only a dialog with your wife, and the ensuing analysis, will tell you.

BTW: There may be a number of choices, so it’s important to look at the ‘after tax’ situation … this, of course, is where the 401k, etc. should have an advantage, but the disadvantages will be in access (before 59 1/2; investment types/choices; fees; etc.).

By: Lee

Lee — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 00:12:28 +0000

YO Adrian – I think you are in danger of being replaced as our mentor… SCOTT I like your comments about not focusing on ‘fall-back’ or ‘fail-safe’
I have always discovered that success is often closely related to how we think and talk. If we talk the possibility of failure we begin to make failure a greater possibility in our thinking. Scripture states in Proverbs 23:7 “As a man thinketh in his heart so is he..”

By: Scott

Scott — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:48:46 +0000

I can definitely understand the reasons to use these retirement accounts, to shelter as much tax as you can.

I just always find in every situation in life that I get what ever I focus on. It’s like the old saying goes “Where attention goes, energy flows and results show”. In other words, as long as you are focusing 100% of your energy, thoughts and vision on starting a great company, buying appreciating assets and other Money Making 201 strategies to get to your number faster, I see nothing wrong with taking some advantage of some of these tax-advantaged accounts, but I think that a true entrepreneur should set this up so that they don’t even think about it, or even know what is in those accounts.

In other words, let someone else deal with it so you never even focus your thoughts or attention on it, so that way, the thought never crosses your mind that you have a ‘fall-back’ or ‘fail-safe’ if your entrepreneurial efforts don’t work.

Keep the possibility of HUGE failure and the fear of not reaching your number by your date in the forefront of your mind and pretend that there is no retirement fall-back to lean on in 30-100 or whatever years from now, and I believe you will get to where you want to be

By: Jeff

Jeff — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:41:41 +0000

Ryan, this is a point that I’ve been pondering as well lately. I’ve almost exclusively been a tax-advantaged investor.

I think for me it will come down to my time horizon for the money being invested. If I think I will need it early (before a 59 1/2 retirement) then maybe it will need to be invested outside a 401K, IRA etc.

For most of us, the dates we selected for our Numbers (and subsequent withdrawals) are before 59 1/2. Mine puts me just short of my 50th birthday. That alone should be enough to convince me of changing my strategy, but old habits are hard to break.