I didn’t know you could self direct the retirement account, that’s much better.

I don’t think the 401K is as “locked” as we’re implying here. You can roll that thing over into a self directed, traditional IRA and then invest it in any manner you desire.

As an example, I have one of my IRA’s at a brokerage and can buy individual stocks with it. You should be able to do the same by rolling the 401K over. I’m sure plans vary by employer, but I’d be surprised if you couldn’t do this with most plans.

The trouble that I have with Masterson’s table in conjunction with the annual compound growth calculator is that when we are using those, we are putting our “current net worth” in that required annual compound growth calculator as a starting point, not necessarily actual ‘cash that can be used for growth’, and making the calculation.

The trouble is, 20% of all this equity in our properties can’t be touched because it’s in our properties. Even if we refi, we can only take out the amount above 20% equity, not to mention, even if we are following all of the financial rules, the 20%, 25%, 5% rules, much of our networth would still be rapped up in stuff that either does not appreciate or appreciates slowly(this is why these rules are so important to follow, I know), at or slightly above inflation, like real-estate. Also, some of the MIT’s have a ton of their networth locked in 401k’s that would be lucky to cruise along with a 10% rate of return. This can be taken early of course, but beaten and penalized to death with fees and taxes, thereby cutting the return significantly, unless you found a couple of wonder penny stocks like Josh did.

It’s as if that calculator was designed for someone who has all of their networth in ‘cash’ and the calculation along with Masterson’s table together are saying “ok, now take that cash and begin to do ________ with it from this moment forward to get this 45% compound annual return”.

So, should we even count the “stuff” that we have in our networth or even 20% of the equity we have in our properties in that calculator if we want to get a more accurate calculation?

@ Jeff – Now, there might be better mathematicians amongst us, but my elementary (well, second year College, before I discovered spreadsheets and decided I didn’t need to learn to do my own math any more) tells me that you would apply a weighted average; an example might help:

Let’s say that you keep 20% of your, say, $100,000 net worth in cash at 4% return; 50% in real-estate at 20% return; and the remainder (30%) in stocks at a 12% return. Then it’s easiest to calculate your return by analyzing all of the component return and then adding those up e.g.

$20,000 cash @ 4% = $800 ‘return’

$50,000 RE @ 20% = $10,000 ‘return’

$30,000 stock @ 12% = $3,600 ‘return’

Adding those returns up = $800 + $10,000 + $3,600 = $14,400, which is 14.4% ‘return’ on the full $100k … at least, that’s how I would do it

Now, you did win the prize – almost – because you are right, it is the power of leverage: you calculate the return that you get on the cash that you put in; this is called a cash-on-cash return and it’s pretty much the only one that counts!

Finally, I would like to see your Craig’s List ad modified slightly to actually state how many and what types of property; RE etc. that you would own and when … in other words, simulate your purchases and sales on paper and see if it looks manageable/achievable (i.e. you don’t have to buy 1,000 properties, etc.)

Assuming that the numbers I arrived at are correct (that’s a big assumption, I know)

REI = 50% and Stocks =18%.

Then if an equal investment is made in each, I think the total return might possibly be (50+18)/2 = 34%.

34% is pretty darn close to Masterson’s Table. Maybe he was right after all.

If that’s the case, my number profile shifts a bit and requires me to commit 100% of my net worth to this growth engine.

1-Jan-10 $773,133
1-Jan-11 $1,035,998.22
1-Jan-12 $1,388,237.61
1-Jan-13 $1,860,238.40
1-Jan-14 $2,492,719.46
1-Jan-15 $3,340,244.08
1-Jan-16 $4,475,927.06
1-Jan-17 $5,997,742.27
1-Jan-18 $8,036,974.64
1-Jan-19 $10,769,546.01

Conclusion, my number is still achievable.

I like how you separated those out Jeff, very nice!

My chosen vehicle is of course going to be heavily in real estate and stocks as well, but I guess I never banked on getting returns that high on those investments. If I can match or come close to your figures Jeff, i’ll be done with my numbers a few years ahead of schedule!

Do you plan on refinancing your home and rental soon in order to pull out all that equity so you can put it to work for you?

I’m going to go out on a limb and say the break through you are referring to is “The power of leverage.”

Thanks for the comment Josh.

My Net Worth is all in at this point. Very little is in Cash (<10%). I'm in two houses (one's my residence, the other a rental) and the rest is in a smattering of mutual funds which are mainly indices.

The 49% meant specifically to the real estate and individual stock strategy. By my math, my net worth is from the following areas:

Cash – 7.3%
Individual Stocks – 0.16%
Mutual Funds – 22.5%
Home – 31%
Other Real Estate – 34%

I am violating Adrian's 25% net worth rule on my home but we've discussed that previously and the reasons behind it. I guess at this point I currently have more than 49% of my net worth already committed to my growth engine (65% in REI).

One thought I've had over the last 24 hours is can you really "add" returns like I did? Or is it more of an averaging excercise. E.G. Assuming equal investment amounts…(Real Estate returns + Stock Returns) / 2 = actual returns.

If that's the case (which I think it is upon greater reflection) then my Number Effects analysis is incorrect and needs revisiting.

So…any thoughts on expected returns from commercial real estate? Adrian I think you'll probably have some good insight into this.